New idea for a racing series

"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin) 03/13/2018 at 11:59 • Filed to: Nascar, Racing, Let there be racecars, Mid-sized sedans, because racecar

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I would love to watch the equivalent of NASCAR except for having real midsize sedans. I think it would be much more interesting and entertaining to see cars that one could theoretically buy do 500 miles on an oval flat out.

Rules would be simple:
-The only things that can be added are safety equipment but any non street legal equipment can be removed (back seats, carpet, etc)

-At least 5,000 models of the competing trim must be sold. No 500 car limited runs

-At least 50,000 models of all trims must be sold. No special made sports sedan with no base underpinnings.

-Can’t run newest model until sales goal hit for that year.

- Must have at least four doors, no coupes.

-Competition trim cannot exceed the MSRP of 2x base trim price. No $100,000 Camrys

-Street legal tires, no slicks

-Must have window sticker and dealer information to show not factory ringer

Three divisions:
Midsize sedans
Midsize sedans (Hybrid)
Compact sedans/hatchbacks

This would rekindle some interest in sedans but more importantly, auto racing.

The first couple of seasons of Midsize would be a hoot because there isn’t any performance versions out yet except maybe Ford but it would need significantly more fuel stops. It would also be interesting to see how many manufacturers can make it through the whole race.

It would be easy to get teams started as the cars in question aren’t terribly expensive nor hard to come by. Team start up would be encouraged.

If it caught on in popularity, manufacturers might start making special competition trim levels but they’d have to meet sales targets. Minimum number of models sold could increase as well to keep it from getting out of control in terms of performance

djmt1 > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:07

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So this but with more cars and laps.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > djmt1 03/13/2018 at 12:15

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Yeah, pretty close but only new gen cars. Back to what NASCAR started as but with some modifications to prevent how we got to where NASCAR is now.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:21

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Based on your rules, the race series would be owned by the luxury sports sedan segment. The M3 meets all the requirements for the compact car class and the M5 meets your midsized class requirements.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:23

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So more like DTM without the mods to the drivetrain allowed. If your car is a front driver, so is the race version. I’ve wanted that for a long time. But you may need to open up some mods to allow some development by the manufacturers so they could test different equipment to improve the race car and be implemented on the road car.

promoted by the color red > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:23

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SCCA Showroom Stock class for mid-sized sedans? Sounds good to me.

Long-Voyager > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:26

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I love this idea. I may actually watch “Nascar” again if they did this.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 03/13/2018 at 12:30

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Yeah, that was the only flaw I couldn’t fix. I wasn’t sure how to properly separate the luxury brands from the non luxury brands.

Can’t do drivetrain because of Audi and Volvo. And BMW and Mercedes sell nearly as many sedans as Toyota, Ford or Chevy. Could do a luxury brand division but what defines a luxury brand? Acura, Buick and Infiniti all hit that gray area

SmugAardvark > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:31

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You’d quickly run into problems of balance. As much as I would love the racing, without anything in place to keep cars even you’d likely see one car finish first nearly every single time.

Beyond that, touring car racing and Spec racing hasn’t had much luck in the U.S. in recent years, commercially speaking. I’m not sure a slower version of that would have enough in the way of success.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:32

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The main reason I’ve never liked NASCAR is that the car have sticker headlights and grilles, but aren’t actually anything like the cars they say they’re supposed to be.

And more Homolgations mean cooler street cars!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:38

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Just have a price cap of 45,000 msrp. Although companies could just make their Halo Homologation car a loss leader.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:38

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Rather than putting them in size buckets, put them in MSRP buckets. The cars must be raced as their MSRP as optioned would bracket them. That way a $62k M3 would have to face off against other $50-$70k cars and not get to ROFLstomp a Camry.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 03/13/2018 at 12:47

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You could alway have 4,6, and 8 cylinder classes as well. Or 200, 300, 400, 500hp brackets

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 12:50

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Would be like this but with better drivers.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 03/13/2018 at 12:57

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The CLA45 ruins the cylinder count brackets, and I don’t like hp brackets because all a manufacturer has to do is under-rate their cars(looking at you BMW) and bam, they are in a lower bracket.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 03/13/2018 at 13:01

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Yeah, I could do limits on the base model MSRP. Compacts must start under $20k and mid sizers under $25k and simply adjust the rule every few years.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 03/13/2018 at 13:04

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But can that 350hp 4 banger hold up in a race? I can’t imagine it’ll be as reliable as a less stressed na6. Which in this scenario I’d say turbo cars get bumped up to the next cylinder bracket. So turbo 4s and NA6s compete, as turbo 6s compete with NA 8s

Maxima Speed > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 13:04

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You knew what would be interesting? Anything other than an oval. That’s just ridiculous. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 13:04

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I’d like to tweak this a bit. Allow the competition to buy any car at 2x MSRP. This will help keep costs down by limiting R&D. I think AWD would rule the day.

In reality the car with the highest governor that can survive will win. The cars could be run flat out on most of the big NASCAR tracks. Would need to get down to Bristol/Richmond size for the brakes to be used. All short track racing!!

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 03/13/2018 at 13:11

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Yeah, I’m trying to prevent halo loss leaders from taking over. That’s why there are sales minimums and the double MSRP of the base model restriction. It’s hard to prevent the GT1 situation lol

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 03/13/2018 at 13:16

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350hp from a turbo 4 is understressed for a race engine. I’d expect it to hold up to a 500 mile race as long as MB puts adequate cooling on the car. And if they don’t, this race series would force them to do so. The real test would be penalizing engine swaps.

TBF, I question the cooling ability of alot of non-sport oriented cars in regards to holding up to a race like this though. I wouldn’t expect a base Camry to have sufficient cooling for 3-4 hrs of flat-out racing. And I think you need to be specific on safety equipment. Like you can put on different rotors and pads, however they must remain the same calipers and rotor diameter & thickness as the stock rotors.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 03/13/2018 at 13:24

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I would want the testing to be done independently by the manufacturers rather than the race teams. Trying to prevent direct manufacturer teams.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Future next gen S2000 owner 03/13/2018 at 13:30

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Oh yeah, teams would be encouraged to run multiple manufacturers if they so choose

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > promoted by the color red 03/13/2018 at 13:38

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Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Maxima Speed 03/13/2018 at 13:40

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I have nothing against road courses but ovals prevent giant wings from appearing on the production cars. I would do about 60/40 ovals and road courses respectively

syaieya > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 13:53

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Id like to see a similar series with a rule of no cars l that have a racing win in other larger series (silhouette cars not counted)

So hot bmw and porsches and subarus get set to the side but this wouldn’t keep camrys out because of kyle busch

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP 03/13/2018 at 14:25

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Yep, the brakes are a great example. Upgrade fluid and pads? Sure. Upgrade to prototype carbon ceramics with six piston calipers? No way lol

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 15:19

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But hey, offer it as an option package on the street car and price it such that it sells 5k copies, welcome aboard!

ranwhenparked > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 15:47

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Id say, oh well, that’s just how it is. Ford and GM upset that they’re not competitive? Oh well, then I guess they better come out with RWD, V8 Fusions and Malibu, then. Nothings stopping them.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > ranwhenparked 03/13/2018 at 17:11

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True, but that series already exists as DTM. Both that and NASCAR are basically arms races that have ended up with cars that barely resemble their road going counterparts. The limiting factor on this series is that they have to be somewhat commercially successful cars too. That’s why MSRP limitations make the most sense

ranwhenparked > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 18:30

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I would say a high production volume solves the goal - some manufacturers will have a suitable car, some won’t, and the ones that won’t just wouldn’t compete in the series. But, if you’re talking something that sells tens of thousands of copies a year, its going to be a pretty ordinary/mass market car regardless of the price tag, those volumes automatically mean nothing exotic.

Why not stipulate: 1) stock body shell, 2) stock engine block, 3) production drivetrain configuration (FWD, RWD, AWD, whatever the base production car is), and annual sales of, say, 30,000 units? That would allow things like the Mustang or Challenger in. Maybe have an upward cap on horsepower or something.

Die-Trying > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 18:39

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this would be amazing as an enduro, last car running, style challenge. one tank of gas, one set of tires, can only use what comes FACTORY in the car to repair it in the pits........ can be run on dirt, or grass, gravel, mud, pavement...... 3hours to prep the car before the event......

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/13/2018 at 21:06

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Gotcha. That’d be good

aquila121 > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/23/2018 at 14:22

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What if I want giant wings on sedans (functional aero, of course)?

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > aquila121 03/23/2018 at 14:49

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Starts to become more like DTM or even WRC at that point. The series needs carve out its own niche

NKato > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 03/23/2018 at 19:10

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Throw in a Fullsize Sedan division and we’ll see a fuckton of Dodge Chargers competing against modded Crown Victorias.

Edit: By “modded” I mean “given a 5.0L Coyote crate engine with a beefed up transmission and drive train (new differential), and all speed governors removed.”

And throw in some dirt road courses and ovals, too.

NKato > ranwhenparked 03/23/2018 at 19:15

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The Bangstang and the Cockholster are two-doors though, and already exist in the American Iron series, as well as other series. I would probably avoid sports cars for the purposes of this kind of racing series.

ranwhenparked > NKato 03/23/2018 at 19:28

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Well, I think if you set a high enough volume requirement, sports cars would be excluded anyway, even if not specifically mentioned. I mean, the Miata and Corvette are probably the two best sellers globally, and they don’t even hit 30,000 units a year each.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > NKato 03/23/2018 at 19:47

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Maybe Ford would bring back the Falcon on the current Mustang platform to better compete with the Chargers!